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Jeff_Permanian

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Reply with quote  #1 
My intro to the "pro-audio" world came quite by accident. First it was a visit to a local pro-audio store for a balanced cable purchase. The owner gave me a demo of his full blown out door concert setup and I was astonished at the impact of all those watts running through very efficient speakers with big drivers. This was hardly the audiophile (glass of wine) setup I had created. This was JD on the rocks and lots of it.

Phase two was visiting an AVS forum member who like me had gone through the Audiophile speaker world (hemorrhaging cash all the way) looking for true theater sound. This guy produces motion pictures and he was serious about re-creating the movie experience in his home. He heard about JTR through Mark Seaton as Mark had worked with Jeff at Danley Sound Labs and they had collaborated on the Triple12LF design. It was this demo that really opened my eyes and ears to pro-audio.

I get it about how the system doesn't look as cool or pretty as it did with the Revel/Fathom, but the difference in sound is amazing. I had some neighbors over for a demo this weekend. They had heard and were impressed with the Revel/Fathom setup but everyone noticed the difference in both the quality and quantity of the sound.

Right now I am just enjoying the fruits of my labor and don't mind the look. The fix is relatively easy as I have the perfect setup for a false wall and an AT screen to hide all this industrial looking gear. The down side is I will need (want) a new projector and screen plus I will lose the Plasma. With video going through so many technology changes right now waiting will only benefit me in the long run. In the mean time, I am pretty darn close to my Mini IMAX dream system at least audio wise.

Looking good Billy Ray

Sounding good Luis
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rmk

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Reply with quote  #2 
Just thought I would update this Thread with new pictures and impressions.

I have been enjoying the T12LF's for several months now. The beautiful audiophile Revels are a distant memory and I have never regretted the decision to move up (yes up) to the T12LF's. That may seem odd or insincere but believe it or not, the increased dynamics and headroom of the 12LF's still puts a big smile on my face especially when I have one of those go for it days in the HT. I'm talking balls to the wall, pissing off the neighbors kind of sessions and my neighbors aren't all that close .

Anyway, if you are ever lucky enough to hear these speakers, you will hear what I'm talking about. If you are in the Sacramento Ca area and want a demo,  I'd be happy to show them off. Jeff knows how to get a hold of me.

Here are some newer pics with the grills installed.



rmk

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Reply with quote  #3 
To finish off the Revel replacement, I just ordered a pair of the new 2010 Triple 8HT's to use as my surrounds paired with my T12LF's.

Due to position limitations I'm going to revert back to a 5.1 setup vs my current 7.1. I am confident that the increased dynamics of the T8's will more than offset the reduction in speakers from 7 to 5.
rmk

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Reply with quote  #4 
OK, more changes coming.As mentioned above the T8's are on order and I added a pair of Captivators to that today. So as it stands now, I have ordered the following from JTR:

2 Triple 8HT for surrounds
2 Captivator subs to be placed room front under CC.
I also ordered a Crest CC4000 amp to drive the Captivators.

So by mid August I should have a two row, six seat theater with dual Danley TH-SPUDS (under riser) and dual Captivators (up front) along with the JTR Triple12LF's and the 2010 T8's. Inspired by Peter (Fugueness on AVS) I am planning a GTG for the weekend of September 26th and Jeff has agreed to fly out and EQ my system (using Audyssey Pro) as well as attend the GTG. He will also be upgrading the Xovers on my T12LF's so the system should be pretty well optimized for the GTG.

All in the area are welcome to attend and I think it will be a fun and educational time. Jeff is a great guy and having the designer/builder of the speakers on hand to answer questions will be very cool. I will start a GTG thread here and on AVS as the time gets closer. In the meantime, I will be doing the initial setup and establishing a base line to compare the pre and post Audyssey pro EQing and will take and post some pics here.
gpmbc

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hey RMK are you gonna be running your set up as LFE plus Mains? If so how are you integrating the Captivators and Triple 12LFs? If all 4 subs off the LFE how do you plan to time align?


TBLEY

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Reply with quote  #6 
That is going to be one helluva system.  I'm sure it is as it stands already.  I wished I lived near by.  I'm looking at the Audyssey Pro site and wondering if do you purchase it through a dealer with the installation and setup?  Or can you just purchase the unit by itself? What does the unit retail for with/without balanced inputs?
 
Thanks,
Tom
rmk

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Reply with quote  #7 
That is going to be one helluva system.  I'm sure it is as it stands already.  I wished I lived near by.  I'm looking at the Audyssey Pro site and wondering if do you purchase it through a dealer with the installation and setup?  Or can you just purchase the unit by itself? What does the unit retail for with/without balanced inputs?
 
Thanks,
Tom
[/
QUOTE]
Thanks, I'm pretty excited to hear the final results of these changes.

It is $2400 retail for the Pro and requires a pro installer kit. I have Audyssey Multi EQ in my SSP (Integra 9.8) and that is compatable with the Pro kit.
rmk

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc
Hey RMK are you gonna be running your set up as LFE plus Mains? If so how are you integrating the Captivators and Triple 12LFs? If all 4 subs off the LFE how do you plan to time align?




All subs off of the single LFE Channel out of an SMS-1. Between phase adjustment and Audyssey I don't think there will be much of a problem. The positions are very close to where I had quad JL Fathoms without serious issues. If it were a problem I would add another SMS-1 for the captivators and that would give me separate phase control of the Captivators but I think that would create as many problems as it would solve. 

I might play around with using just the Captivators for music but even in that scenario I would use the subs for LFE only with phase, distance and Xover to integrate rather than using stereo subs.
Bandphan

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hey Rob, are you going to be posting invites for the GTG? Im going to be in Vegas that week
rmk

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandphan
Hey Rob, are you going to be posting invites for the GTG? Im going to be in Vegas that week


Yes, I 'll start and AVS GTG thread and maybe Audioholics (although there aren't many locals who frequent Audioholics) and of course here. 

Both  Fugueness (his AVS handle) and Keith Yates have said they would like to come so it should be an interesting meet. Keith's HT expierence has been primarily with the six and seven figure systems he designs and implements so this more humble HT environment is a whole nuther world for him. He is a brilliant guy and has some great stories and perspectives on audio. Really, it is worth the trip just to hear him talk audio. Fugueness has a fantastic all Seaton Sound system (3-Catalysts, 4-Sparks and 4-Submersives) that represents the best HT system I have heard.

Hope you can make it.

 After adding the Triple 8's I will be interested in hearing how my JTR system compares to Peters Seaton system.   
Utnapishtim

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Reply with quote  #11 
Hey RMK!,

I've got a SubMersive on order--it is supposed to ship on Monday actually.  Seeing as you've heard quite a few subs lately (at Peter's and your own house!), and have had the Fathoms and SVS in-room as well,  I'm really curious about your impressions of Seaton's creation in comparison to Jeff's and Tom Danley's.  

I'd guess they are all pretty incredible and you could second-guess yourself forever, but I'd be interested in your opinion.  I'm coming from an SVS PB13 Ultra which was great, but a bit on the mushy side (esp. for music), and it made funny noises when coupled with Audyssey on very taxing scenes.  

I'm not even sure how much the Danley DTS-20 or JTS Captivator cost, but anyway, I'd appreciate your insights a lot.

Thanks--and I wish there was any way I could get out to your GTG in September!  
rmk

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnapishtim
Hey RMK!,

I've got a SubMersive on order--it is supposed to ship on Monday actually.  Seeing as you've heard quite a few subs lately (at Peter's and your own house!), and have had the Fathoms and SVS in-room as well,  I'm really curious about your impressions of Seaton's creation in comparison to Jeff's and Tom Danley's.  

I'd guess they are all pretty incredible and you could second-guess yourself forever, but I'd be interested in your opinion.  I'm coming from an SVS PB13 Ultra which was great, but a bit on the mushy side (esp. for music), and it made funny noises when coupled with Audyssey on very taxing scenes.  

I'm not even sure how much the Danley DTS-20 or JTS Captivator cost, but anyway, I'd appreciate your insights a lot.

Thanks--and I wish there was any way I could get out to your GTG in September!  


It is impossible to provide anything but a hazy subjective opinion regarding the performance of the subs I have owned/heard. That said, I think you have made a wise purchase as the Submersive is probably the best sounding powered sealed sub I have heard regardless of price. 

I have not heard Jeff's subs and for me the dual Captivators are a blind purchase. This was based upon my love of the Triple 12LF's and also some comments made by Mark Seaton regarding the new Captivators.
 
Quote:
In the 15-20Hz range one of the new, smaller Captivators should be close in output to the SubMersive, but will be very clean sounding due to the bandpass design similar to what I use in the deeper reaching and much larger Terraform designs.


I was considering a pair of Submersives when I decided to get the Caps. I am intrigued by the bandpass design and love to try out these different approaches.

Hearing Fugueness's system two weeks ago set the bar for me. My goal is to get close to that performance for a much lower cost. I think that is doable and I am anxious to get it all put together. The GTG should be interesting and all who can make it are welcome.
 

Utnapishtim

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Reply with quote  #13 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmk
It is impossible to provide anything but a hazy subjective opinion regarding the performance of the subs I have owned/heard. That said, I think you have made a wise purchase as the Submersive is probably the best sounding powered sealed sub I have heard regardless of price. 

I have not heard Jeff's subs and for me the dual Captivators are a blind purchase. This was based upon my love of the Triple 12LF's and also some comments made by Mark Seaton regarding the new Captivators.
 
Quote:
In the 15-20Hz range one of the new, smaller Captivators should be close in output to the SubMersive, but will be very clean sounding due to the bandpass design similar to what I use in the deeper reaching and much larger Terraform designs.


I was considering a pair of Submersives when I decided to get the Caps. I am intrigued by the bandpass design and love to try out these different approaches.

Hearing Fugueness's system two weeks ago set the bar for me. My goal is to get close to that performance for a much lower cost. I think that is doable and I am anxious to get it all put together. The GTG should be interesting and all who can make it are welcome.

Very cool--I appreciate your response.  I am so looking forward to the SubMersive and hope that it provides that all-around-performance I'm dreaming of!  I have limited placement options and really only the budget for one major sub, so I'm crossing my fingers. 

That's awesome about Fugueness's system!  And high praise coming from you with such a great JTR/Danley setup!  I'd imagine that anything Jeff, Tom, and Mark put out will be truly spectacular. 

BTW, great looking setup with the full front-wall treatment!  I really like that compared to your previous iterations.  How's the sound changed with the "full" treatment?  

Best to you on the GTG--I'll be anxious to hear yours and everyone else's experience, alas at a distance... 

rmk

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnapishtim
Very cool--I appreciate your response.  I am so looking forward to the SubMersive and hope that it provides that all-around-performance I'm dreaming of!  I have limited placement options and really only the budget for one major sub, so I'm crossing my fingers. 


That's awesome about Fugueness's system!  And high praise coming from you with such a great JTR/Danley setup!  I'd imagine that anything Jeff, Tom, and Mark put out will be truly spectacular. 

BTW, great looking setup with the full front-wall treatment!  I really like that compared to your previous iterations.  How's the sound changed with the "full" treatment?  

Best to you on the GTG--I'll be anxious to hear yours and everyone else's experience, alas at a distance... 


Thanks

Peter's (Fugueness) system benefited from Marks careful setup of the quad Submersives and Catalysts/Sparks. They are planning another GTG when Peter gets his dual Terraforms that will be replacing the 4 Submersives and will be doing additional EQ to optimize his system.

I am hoping that the combo of JTR 12's and 8's, the Caps and Danley subs all in a treated/sealed room will get me very close to that level of performance. Jeff's help in dialing it all in should bring it all together. This is turning into an interesting comparison of products and approaches. Different but in many way the same.

Should be fun and sorry you can't make it.
smbear

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Reply with quote  #15 

do the 8 sound the same as the 12 other than bass? my subs go low but roll off early so the 12 will fill in the mid bass and i love the thump in the chest mid bass

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